Sunday, April 26, 2009

Fossil FAIL!

Posted at CARM on April 26th, 2009. Creationist: Wavey

Wavy asked for proof of an old Earth - so we gave him this picture: Dinosaur Fossil.

His reply:
A bone in a rock. Hint - bones can't talk and neither can rocks. They have to be interpreted within a framework of assumptions.

Ummm....what bone? You mean the footprint? Wow - can't identify a footprint, eh? Don't you think that you're then unable to debate this subject fully?


Taxonomu FAIL

Posted at AIG (Answers in Genesis) on April 25th, 2009. Creationist: Probably Hamm, but we'll just say: Generic Creationist that Thinks They Know Lots About Science.

Background: Fossil Seal with Arms Discovered

AIG quote from their article, which can be read HERE:
"Or it could have even been from a broader created kind that included such creatures as otters and beavers"

Scientists reply:
Since when are otters are mustelids and beavers rodents!?

Mustelids: any of numerous carnivorous mammals of the family Mustelidae, comprising the weasels, martens, skunks, badgers, and otters.

Rodents: belonging or pertaining to the gnawing or nibbling mammals of the order Rodentia, including the mice, squirrels, beavers, etc.

Pinnipeds: belonging to the Pinnipedia, a suborder of carnivores with limbs adapted to an aquatic life, including the seals and walruses.

Huh - they don't sound alike at all! And what is this "kind" nonsense still going around?

Beaver KIND. Otter KIND. There is no such thing as a kind - the closest you get is species. And just because "it looks kind of like an otter" doesn't mean that it IS an otter.

I think some people look kind of like a chimpanzee (Bush for example), but that doesn't mean that they ARE chimpanzees.

Silly Creationists.


Marriage FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 26th, 2009. Posted by Dr. K

Dr.K's original comment:
Adam and Eve were married because in biblical marriage it is not the ceremony which matters. It is the consummation. I thought you knew that.

Follow up:
Well that certainly is a new concept. Having sex makes a couple married, millions will be shocked by that. And most certainly it implies that the homosexual marriage issue is now settled.

LMAO! Sex means you're married?! Ppft.



Posted at CARM on April 26, 2009. Creationist: the Legendary Dr.K

Original Comment: (talking about length of days and weeks to back up Genesis and the "fact" that the Earth was created with everything on it in 6 literal days).
I gave you support of my positions for evenings and mornings by using the Book of Daniel. However you deliberately ignored it. Keep burying your head in the sand.

Dr.K's response:
The Book of Daniel talks about 'weeks of years', one week in this case equalling seven years, which is clearly deducible from the text of Daniel. Daniel is saying that a week has seven days. Are you arguing with him?

Wait a minute - "one week equals seven years - can't you tell that he was saying that a week has seven days in it from reading that literally?"

No - I can't. Literally has nothing to do with it. Literally means that "one week equals seven years". Herm.

Not to mention that the book of Daniel where it talks about this part is told from recounting a DREAM. How many dreams should be taken as literal? None. lol Good try though Dr.K.


Thursday, April 23, 2009

Genome FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 23rd, 2009. Creationist: Sport

Original comment:
The cat base pair sequence is different than that of humans, as are those of the kangaroo and mouse. Hence, they are not much the same, even though they may be the same genes and are perhaps in the same place on the chromosome. Saying otherwise is like looking at a lamborghini and a beat up, old pinto on blocks and saying that because they're both care, they're much the same.

On the other hand, your articles are also talking about positioning. So, if mine have nothing to do with the "core theory of evolution", neither does yours. The core theory of evolution to be very plain doesn't require the differences to be genetic either, merely heritable. If you don't like the genetics aspect of it, take it up with Mendel, not Darwin. Additionally, non-coding DNA would be important in any comparison.

Now, since you want to get down to the actual base pairs:
Humans, chromosome 1
Mouse, chromosome 1

When you get done, you'll see that there is a very significant amount of genetic difference.

Sport's Response:
show me.....and while you're at it, show me how it is that these sequences make "catness" as opposed to "humanness." science only, please.

What the hell is humanness? *sigh* Sport wouldn't know science if it bit him in the butt.


Monday, April 20, 2009

Just Plain FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 20th, 2009. Possible Creationist: 4ale

4ale original comment:
Have you seen the documentary/movie "Expelled - No Intelligence Allowed" by Ben Stein? If not, you might like watching it. It's an unbiased look at Creation vs. Evolution.

Un huh. Unbiased? Riiiiiight. Check out Expelled Exposed and that should clear it up for you. And how is equating the Theory of Evolution with the Holocaust at all unbiased?


Friday, April 17, 2009

Cloud FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 17th, 2009. Creationist: Dr. K (again I know...but he's such a fount of....something I'm sure).

Original Comment (made by me):
Volcanoes emit more water vapor than anything else (well...except for lava). It's easy to see that on a planet as volatile as one where the processes are still kicking into high gear, vulcanism would contribute a lot of water.

Non-Creationist post:
If I was on the ball I'd be asking how volcanoes that are not near the sea could actually put their vapor into the nearest mass of water. And I'd be asking why the vapor doesn't eVAPORate.

Wow. Does your brain hurt after that one? Mine did. Why don't clouds evaporate!


Thursday, April 16, 2009

Evidence FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 16th, 2009. Creationist: Dr.K

Well I am afraid that court is out and has been for a very long time as it is universally accepted by the experts that it is indeed 4.6 billion years old, you just are incapable of understanding that we have presented the evidence and you have none.

Dr. K's response:
I understand that it is accepted. Every book I consulted, with the obvious exception of the Bible, says that it is 4.6 billion years old. Let's just say I'd like to hear it again. With my own ears. I believe it's dangerous to 'just believe' something. That would be the same as letting other people do my thinking for me.

So...out of say 1,000 books, only 1 book refutes it (even though it really doesn't), and you say "well, I need to hear it more"....haven't you already heard more?


Wednesday, April 15, 2009


Posted at CARM on April 15th, 2009. Creationist: Sport

Sport's comment:
the article calls them "humans," so I what?

When the earliest human ancestors left the trees and struck out to make a new life for themselves on the ground, there was no going back, a new study suggests.

Saying "human ancestors" does NOT equal humans. Self-pwn!

He self-pwn's himself a lot. It's fun.


Tuesday, April 14, 2009

Religion FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 14th, 2009. Creationist: Dr.K.

Dr.K's original comment:
Everybody except the Mormons knows that the Mormon version of the story is a total invention. Surely you didn't think I was going to quote them.

That could be true for any noun.

Dr.K's answer:
Just because the Mormons are a bunch of liars, doesn't mean that everybody else is.

Yeah! Just because they believe in a space god and that Jesus was alive and died and rose again, but not as a zombie, and that God gave his commandments and had prophets and....wait...

........sounding familiar........


Monday, April 13, 2009

Understanding FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 13th, 2009. Creationist: Shep

Original Comment by Shep: Evolution basically equals aborting and killing babies.

Evolution = abortion?

Get real shep.

Shep's Reply:
I am being real. Evolution not only promotes abortion, it supports it.
--Evolution goes much deeper than you would expect. If you delve into the heart of evolution, you will find a lie as the underlying cause of it. And we know where all lies originate...from the father of all lies, the devil himself.

--Evolution is much, much worse that what some of you nonchalantly hold it up to be.

Riiiiight. Why is everything that doesn't back up Young Earth Creationists centered around the devil? It is like the layers of the Earth?

The devil is the core, Evolutionary scientists that don't factor in God are the Mantle, Theistic Evolutionists are the Asthenosphere, and YEC's are the crust?



Volcanics FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 13th, 2009. Creationist: Dr.K

Most of Earth's heat is stored in the mantle, Marone says, and there are four sources that keep it hot. First, there's the heat left over from when gravity first condensed a planet from the cloud of hot gases and particles in pre-Earth space. As the molten ball cooled, some 4 billion years ago, the outside hardened and formed a crust. The mantle is still cooling down. (It continues into the basics of the Earth's interior heat engine, the radioactive decay, etc).

Dr.K's response:
Do you mean it will never go out?

Lava is not heat. Lava is fire.

Silly Panda! Lava isn't fire, it's molten rock at the surface of the planet! A) you mean magma if it's in the interior. B) fire is an exothermic reaction. C) Stop asserting your scientific "facts" on us all, it makes my brain hurt.


Sunday, April 12, 2009

Anatomy FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 12th, 2009. Creationist: Dr.K (we see a lot of him because he's....not bright in the science department.)

Discussion background:
Male and female skeletons have distinct differences.

Indeed they are. If a forensic anthropologist has to figure out the sex of a pile of bones, he or she hopes for the pelvis. Failing that, the skull is the next best way, with about an 80% reliability.

(Adults only: it is much harder to tell the sex of children reliably because of a lot of the differentiation comes with maturity. OTOH you can tell the age of children within months, but adults only within a decade, once the third molars have fully erupted.)

Is that a professional forensic opinion?

Forensic anthropology borrows methods developed from the academic discipline of physical anthropology and applies them to cases of forensic importance. These techniques can be used to assess age, --->sex<-----, stature, ancestry, and analyze trauma and disease. Forensic anthropologists frequently work in conjunction with forensic pathologists, odontologists, and homicide investigators to identify a decedent, discover evidence of trauma, and determine the postmortem interval.

Dr.K: (heer comz teh stoopid!)
I have it on good authority that it is impossible to determine the gender of a human skeleton.

*facepalm* Look...I realize that large pieces of anthropological evidence is missing. Much the same with paleontological differences.

But...arguing that you cannot tell the difference in sex of a skeleton of the species you BELONG TO?!

New low, Creationists, new low.


Just Plain FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 12th, 2009. Creationist: Shep

He forgot to add that the fact that Noah built a boat proves the Bible is also an excellent treatise on Naval Architecture. We should start demanding that it be given equal time in engineering classes. *eyeroll*

Shep's Response:
You really should, because Noah's ark is the basis by which all others have their foundation.

All other arks? Or all other ships? Because, either way...not true.


Hominid FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 12th, 2009. Creationist: Dr.K

Maybe you can also argue that a chicken is an bird or even an animal because someone decided it was so.

Dr.K's response:
I wonder if you have the expertise to question a creationist.
it is only because you are vainglorious enough to think that everyone else must be wrong.

If Hominid refers to a bipedal organism, then a chicken is a hominid.

It requires expertise to question a Creationist now, does it? Darn chicken-hominids.


Ken Ham FAIL (another one)

Posted at CARM on April 12th, 2009. Creationist: Mello

Mello's original message:
Fossils -- A reminder of Easter. Well, I want to wish everybody a Happy Easter, and I was searching for a creation-related Easter article. Fortunately, Ken Ham has just the right article, and it reminded me of those childhood fossils sitting by the creek. Check it out!

Mello Posted Ken Ham's Article, which states:
Because much of the church has adopted a history of millions of years and/or evolutionary ideas, the message concerning Christ has been disconnected from the history in the Bible and thus in many people’s minds has been relegated to the position of just an interesting ‘story.’

However, at this Easter, as we begin the 21st Century, let’s reconnect the Bible to the real world by believing its history. Consider this one practical example:

When I look at a fossil bone (say of a dinosaur), I can observe that it is dead! The Bible’s history connects to this dead bone:

‘For the wages of sin is death’ (Romans 6:23). Death entered the world because of sin–there were no dead bones (of animals or people) before sin.

That's your only connect of dinosaurs to Easter?! Dead bones?! You mean fossil bones....right? Dead animals? Not just dead bones.


Saturday, April 11, 2009

Clade FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 11th, 2009. Creationist: Dr. K

Ok, lets try something a little different here. Every clade has its own unique traits. Which clade would you place humans in?

Are we most like Cetations?
How about Bovids?.
What about Canids?
Or are we most like Hominids?

Dr.K's answer:
Cetation - not sure. I think shellfish.

Bovids - cows

Canids - dogs

Hominids - Problem here is I know what you want me to say, but I won't say it because I don't believe it. What you want to say is that because apes and monkeys look like humans, then they must be of the same family.
I don't believe it, and I won't say it.

The problem here is that ordinarily you are using a term - hominid - which would describe man, at least from an etymological point of view, but you are including apes. Why was an ape's name not applied to describe a man? Why is it the other way around? Why is a wolf (Lupid) not included in Canid? Why use two different terms for wolves and dogs, and use only one term for man and ape?

I bolded. Cetaceans are clams? Not whales, dolphins, porpoises?


Snail FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 11th, 2009. Ex-creationist: Class

For reference - Class is upset at 'ape' being used to describe humans in terms of classification.
I reject that Class is an Ape, or Hominid. I am beginning to think of her as a Enidae.

Class's response:
Please stop wasting my time by posting words that aren't really words. Thank you.

Someone hasn't heard of air-breathing land snails, have they?


Conversation FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 11th, 2009. Creationist: Dr.K - Evolutionary Scientist: Les

Scientists deny magic. If scientists were to accept magic, then science would be impossible. Since science is possible, the denial of magic makes sense.

Creationism is magic. God, according to Creationists, zaps species, individuals, civilisations into and out of existence. No natural law involved. That is magic. Creationism is a belief in magic.

Denialism is denial in tha face of contrary evidence. Science does not deny contrary evidence, it accepts it. Denial of Creationism is not denialism, because there is no evidence for Creationism. It is a myth, and not a very good one. Creationism has not been denied by science, it has been disproved.

Learn the difference between denial and disproof.

I deny magic too.

So I am in denial.

But I don't deny the creation.

If a man said to you that he could pull a rabbit out of a hat, and he didn't produce the rabbit, you'd say the guy was a fraud. And you'd be right.

But what if he does produce the rabbit?

Prove it was a Creation by a god. So produce your rabbit.

You misunderstand. The rabbit is the universe. It has been produced.

Ah yes - based on the famous Rabbit Nebula, containing within it the Cottontail Constellation.


WIN of the Day

Too good not to post. A comment from DL in reference to:
"The apes are cars and humans are high speed trains. A high speed train is not a car." - Dr.K

No, The OTHER apes are ford mustangs(chimps), ford escorts(gorilas), ford LTDs(orangutangs), and ford tempos(bononoes)..... Humans are ford aerostars.

High speed trains are a totaly seperate branch. Probably ungulates of some sort.

For some reason, hoofed trains just CRACKED me up.


Association FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 11th, 2009. Creationist: Dr.K

"Man" is a bit outmoded these days.

But while "man" can refer to people as a category, "Man" is still a small group within a large group called "apes". Sort of like "Fords" are a small group within a large group called "cars".

It IS possible to be both you know.

Dr.K's response:
So suppose we have cars and high speed trains. The apes are cars and humans are high speed trains.

A high speed train is not a car.

It'd be a good metaphor if humans were that much different from other apes - which we're not. I don't ever mistake a Jetta on the street as a high speed train. Do you?


Carbon FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 11th, 2009. Creationist: RByers

Original Post:
On nova on a show about a claimed meteor causing the ice age extinction all these researchers admitted somthing i didn't know. That using new technology has discovered that tiny diamonds were created by sudden powerful forces in energy and rocks etc. They found these tiny diamonds in particles and claimed its evidence for a impact on earth.

Well AMEN.

The origin of diamonds of this type is a good hint of the origin of all diamonds. All diamonds possibly are from the earth movements during the biblical flood. Their need not be invoked slow processes but rather fast processes can do the trick.

It took modern technology to discover these tiny diamonds and is the enemy of wrong ideas as subjects like evolution rely on.

*Sigh* So...because small diamonds can be formed by the sudden pressure and heat from a meteor hitting the Earth...we jump to the conclusion that it means the Earth is young. *shrugs*


Friday, April 10, 2009

Reality FAIL

Posted at CARM on April 10th, 2009. Creationist: Sport

We would be still living in the Stone Age if there weren't science.

Science is responsible for all the conveniences and improved health we have today.

Sport's answer:
so.... to be 30 years old and dieing from getting an infection on your toe sounds like an improvement?!


Evolution FAIL

Posted at CARM on August 2 2008. Creationist: Scarlet

Scarlet's Original Post:
Why aren't there eyes in the back of my head? This would aid my survival since I could see enemy coming towards me from the rear. Yet we look at the animals and overwhelmingly they're blessed with eyes from our cretor yet none in the back of our heads.

I guess those animals which evolved eyes in the front and back of their heads got selected out... in preference of animals with eyes only in the front of their head. Yes that makes perfect sense. Go evolution!

and why not eyes on my knees so I can better see where I'm walking so I don't fall down holes or something

oh that alleged evolution process failed in that respect also



Stratigraphy FAIL

Posted at CARM on November 18t 2008. Creationist: RByers

There's countless index fossils, more so when you grab a microscope. So Creationists, it's your turn to show us your vacuum of knowledge concerning why index fossils even exist. According to your global flood, all organisms have been around since God created them, and were living and dying at the same time as everything else. And the flood waters tore up the land jumbling everything up.

Seeing as the 3 index fossils I listed were all aquatic, shouldn't they be found together? Why aren't they?

Why do Index Fossils even exist?

RByers' answer:
The clue is not the fossils but the rock formations they are in.
What is the origin of the rock strata and why different from the other strata when its from the same event.
The answer must be that the lower strata was from one week in the beginning of the flood and the other strata from the mext week or day. so the first strata swepted up what was in its path. A clean sweep.

The next strata did not sweep up the lower level as it was already rock but brought from up river, as it were, a different contents of other sweepings and laid it on top and pressurized it into rock.

Therefore these index fossils are just creatures from different areas and different sortings separate from the sortings it traveled over.

Deep areas sediment/life laid first and shallow areas came later with different currents.
The creationist can answer life fossil sorting issues with the origin of the sediment material that became the rock strata.

Hows that? Why do creationists have to give the better answers for geology? what are geologists getting paid for?

Gee...I don't know. Maybe they get paid to have logical, scientific answers to geological questions. Could just be me though.


Origin FAIL

Posted at CARM on December 3, 2008. Creationist: Sport

Original post, an article on possible new evidence of Earth's beginning (snippet):
The first 700 million years of Earth’s 4.5-billion-year existence are known as the Hadean period, after Hades, or, to shed the ancient Greek name, Hell.

That name seemed to fit with the common perception that the young Earth was a hot, dry, desolate landscape interspersed with seas of magma and inhospitable for life. Even if some organism had somehow popped into existence, the old story went, surely it would soon have been extinguished in the firestorm of one of the giant meteorites that slammed into the Earth when the young solar system was still crowded with debris.

Sport's reply:
ironic, so the scientific community thinks the earth started in hell, and then sometime in the future the earth will be swallowed up by the sun and so everything will essentially return to the same fiery hell that it emerged from. So we have two distinct stories: God says he is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, yet the scientific community's "divine" plan is hell in the beginning and hell in the end...hell is the alpha and the omega.... Many of them, I fear, will get their wish.


Meteorite FAIL

Posted on CARM December 10th, 2008. Poster: RByers.

So 20 billion megatons of energy (aka heat) is explained as "be[ing] neutralized by methods of God, etc."? IOW, a miracle?

RByers' answer:
Creationism starts from biblical presumptions. So we take on any thing that claims evidence against the truth of the bible. In explaining origins we can easily deal with most things however some things require close reading of biblical boundaries.

There are crators everywhere and probably more destroyed by the moving continents. They have in them sedimentary rock and so are pre-flood by days or more. They would leave a big imprint on the pre flood world.

The bible seems to say that there was a war between Michael, angel, and satan. It says a third of the stars were thrown to earth. So perhaps this is the origin of the crators. The origin of the very unclean dno dominance.

I'm not sure. If its a correct interpretation from the bible, the great Henry morris suggested it, then its okay to bring it up as a fact. formed by the war between Michael and Lucifer? Ummm....oh never mind. lol


Avian FAIL!

Posted on CARM on March 3rd, 2009. SDA Creationist: Nate

Comment (made by myself, Mountaineer_elf):
Birds are a form of modern dinosaur, and Archaeopteryx was a bird, so is included in the maniraptora clade.

And no, my claim is supported by the evidence or I (and many other scientists the world over) wouldn't have made it. No other claim is supported by the evidence.

If you're purely going for "well, the Archaeopteryx didn't jump out of the rock and say 'I'm a dinosaur!' so I suppose we'll ignore it until it's 100% fact."

Well, is 99% close enough? Because we'll never be 100%, and it's impossible to think we will be. But no evidence found points in the opposite direction.

Nate's answer:
You do know a bird is a mammal? And that a dinosaur is a reptile?

*headdesk* *facepalm* and any others I may be missing. Oh...and LOL!


Classification FAIL

Posted on April 10th, 2009. Ex-Creationist, or so we think: Class

Comment was:
How different are we to other apes, the answer is not much at all. And our geographic differences are compounding over time to the point that we will one day be separate species.

Class's answer:
We are not apes, we are hominoids. Both humans and apes belong to the hominoid group. I can't believe you have a pHD and are a geneticist. People can say they are anything on the net.

Herm. Someone forgot that the superfamily hominidae and all it's inhabitants are apes! Who's making fun of who for having a PhD?


Thursday, April 9, 2009

Deep Time FAIL

Posted on CARM on April 9th. Creationist: Sport

The question was:
Rabbit fossils in the pre-Cambrian. Find one, and I'll admit we have some problems.

Sport's answer:
define cambrian.....oh, that's right -- the place that houses no rabbit fossils.

Oh the special keeps coming!


Biology and Botany FAIL

Posted over at CARM on April 9th, 2009. Creationist: MoGrace

The question was:
If God made non-human apes and humans too, He put a lot of unnecessary, non-functonal details in our genomes that only make sense if we are all closely related. Now why would He do that?
The Creationist answer was:
To show us that all life comes from one source - God. Even plant life follows a simialar pattern as set forth in the animal kingdom. Do not even plants have a circulatory system somewhat resembling ours? The handprint of one Designer at work is everywhere.
Someone forgot that there's this thing called the plant kingdom and that we don't have chlorophyll in our bloodstream. Oops.



I have no doubt that I'll get all the inflamed Creationists replying "you evilushunist" but whatever. I am an evolutionary scientist. I'm studying for my degree in vertebrate paleontology

I'm a member at CARM Discussion Forums, Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, and joined purely for discussion in the Evolution vs Intelligent Design/Creationism forum.

Unlike the website Fundies Say the Darndest Things (worth a read), I created this blog merely as a place where I can post the incredibly unscientific things Creationists say when attempting to use science as a debate tool.

If you have a Creationist quote from a forum, or from a source that is a major science FAIL, feel free to send it to: